Newton racecourse by air

[bob]

Seeing Steve's shot of the water tower, and as we often show modern day air shots i thought it may be nice to home in on a local landmark and compare shots for no particular reason other than a bit of interest, and to see which shot people may think is the best.
bob

[bob]

I just found this picture of the race course, it must have been a real smart place to be in those days, just in case there is anyone unsure where it was i will upload a small map.
bob

[WillieBob]

If you zoom out a little more the outline of the 'course becomes even clearer.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=53.453 ... l=16&sty=h

[Lady Forshaw]

Thank you so very very much for posting these aspects of the old racecourse-----Im finding it fascinating learning about the character and history of Newton .My Forshaw ancestors had connections with the racing world and The Swan for sure .They were related to James Appleton who managed the Inn according to the 1841-1851 census.
Do you know if the present day Swan is in the same position as the original Inn on the common?

[Steven]

Do you know if the present day Swan is in the same position as the original Inn on the common?

Hi

Yes its the exact same building, maybe a few extra outhouses, old stables and such, but the building has been dated by some of its features, such as stone window mullions etc to the early 1700s by the people from Liverpool Museums.

Steven Dowd

[bob]

Here is a bigger aspect of the area, note* the Swan was called the Swan with 2 necks at that time.
Bob

[Lady Forshaw]

That's a great wee map Bob---and its exactly around the time my folk were around----thank you so much.
Does anyone know anything about Hall Meadow ,Haydock around the 1840's ? I see there's a Hall House on the map here,but im assuming it's not near enough to Haydock to be the same place??

[Podstar66]

Actually, you may be surprised, but 'The Hall House' is technically in Haydock. You can just see a ' V ' of dots surrounding the buildings at the point of the vee, this is part of the boundary between Newton and Haydock.
As to 'The Hall House', and 'Hall Meadow' being related, I do not know.
St. Helens library have the 1839 Tithe map for Haydock, and a book of the tithe details. Worth a look there perhaps ?

Pod

[Lady Forshaw]

Sorry Steven----my reply to you seems to be lost in the ether! Thanks for all your amazing wealth of info and just hoping i get the chance to sample a wee dram in the "Swan" this summer during my travels , unless I can prove a stronger ??? connection to the Royal Oak! Its a great excuse for a pub crawl ----even for a lady!

Podstar66---I did wonder about that! May just be a coincidence but Im thinking Hall Meadow could have been a place very nearby because an Elizabeth Forshaw of interest to me (born in Scotland) was living/working at The Swan in 1841---then disappears for a time---while another Elizabeth Forshaw has a few babies (the scandal for a lady!) in nearby Hall Meadow/Haydock----I just hope she evaded the asylum!
Thank you all once again!

[bob]

here is Hall Meadow at the top of Vista road.
Bob

hall meadow.jpg

[Lady Forshaw]

Wow! very nearby then! What would you say was the most likely accommodation existing at this address (given "Hall Meadow" on the parish records?) Im assuming the Hall was in ruins by 1845?

[Podstar66]

Hi Lady F
I spent some time looking at the Haydock Tithe map and the details, and found some Forshaws listed as occupiers.
John, Thomas, and Charles.
Thomas was listed as occupier of the lands surrounding, 'The Hall House' (and no doubt the house itself) This is the building near to the racecourse and Swan Inn.
And John had an even bigger 'slice of lands' more to the East of Vista Road. Betweeen Vista Road and Ashton Road, the fields North, and West of Wiswalls, mostly.

And 'Haydock Hall', listed as 'site of' on the 1849, and later maps, does not even get a mention, or any marking to indicate there ever was a Hall, in Hall Meadow. So it must have been in ruins before 1845, and most probably for a few years before 1839 when the tithe map was made.

Pod

[Lady Forshaw]

Hey Pod----many thanks again ---hope you didnt go looking specially--- but thats very very interesting and altho i dont know the area at all---Im beginning to get a real picture of everything with thanks to this forum!
I do remember seeing Thomas Forshaw on the 1841 census as being next to The Swan and he was quite old by that time---I I do think he could be a relative of my Henry but not sure if brothers or not.
The John Forshaw at Vista I think could be a positive link to where Elizabeth went to stay in 1843 when she left the Swan ------assuming Vista Road is by Hall Meadow ??? This Elizabeth later moved to Clipsley Lane I think and never returned to Scotland.
Anyways its brilliant to get a wee glimpse into the past of these people by fitting the jigsaw together and ive learned so much this last week about the tragedy at the Woodpit Colliery which i sadly had no knowledge of before.
Keep up the great work Newtonites!

[Lady Forshaw]

So sorry Pod ---and of course everyone else---but i got a bit mixed up with my censuses/censii?
Thomas F was actually living next to the Swan in 1851 NOT 1841---aged 77---so not so very old really----
and as there were two Elizabeth Forshaws approx the same age working in or near THE SWAN in 1841---(one born in Scotland --the other born in Lancs)----it now seems i was following the wrong one to Hall Meadow !
However it has started some interesting debate about the area and if anyone wants to know more about the Lancs lass---ive posted what ive found on the Forshaw Family topic.Cheerie for now!