Winwick Graves - Two Breadths

[Steven]

Hi Kirsty

Thanks for posting the photos, thats exactly what I was describing, and this shows another oddity, notice how it says only one date, with two people, and then the 2 Breadths, did they both die the same year from the same family ??

and then, I wonder if the stones that have a single name, but where it says

His 2 Breadths, or Her 2 Breaths

means that the occupant was a rather large individual?


Steven Dowd

[Kirsty]

Hi All,

Here is the inscription from the double-sided stone Jasper mentions above.

On one side we have;
[center]In Memory Of
Joseph Pennington Of
Delph Farm Winwick Who Died
July 1st 1889 Aged 53 Years
Also Sarah Elizabeth Eldest
Daughter Of The Above Who
Died July 27th 1869 Aged 11
Months
Also Margaret Ellinor His Wife
Who Died February 13th 1921
In Her 76th Year[/center]

On the other side we have (the letters on this side of the stone are much larger and have an older feel to them);
[center]Sacred
To the Memory of
William Maskery of
Warrington departed this
Life 10th May 1823 aged 77 Year
Esther his Wife departed
This Life 23rd Feby 1824 aged
78 Years
John Son of William &
………………[/center]

Unfortunately the stone has sunk (to what degree I'm not sure) so I've missed at least one line off one side of the headstone.

Would anyone like me to post photo of this stone?

Best Wishes, Kirsty

[Kirsty]

...Thanks for posting the photos. That's exactly what I was describing and this shows another oddity. Notice how it says only one date, with two people and then the 2 Breadths. Did they both die the same year from the same family??

And then, I wonder if the stones that have a single name, but where it says

His 2 Breadths, or Her 2 Breaths

means that the occupant was a rather large individual?

Hi Steven, you're very welcome for the photos ,

I know what you mean about the single names. There was one headstone that read:
James Newton (then on the same line a small 2, uppercase B, small s with a small r beneath it) so = 2 Brs
1781 and that's all the stone read...? The mind boggles ...

Stone masonry was clearly expensive and people weren’t even having full dates inscribed on their stones (as above) but went to the trouble to have the words 2 breadths inscribed. Puzzling.

Best Wishes, Kirsty

[Steven]

I just wonder whether, when they did and restoration work, and particulaly when they rebuilt the Winwick church in the early to mid 1800s, if Pugen the architect, the Winwick Rev. and the builders, while having to move some graves anyway, to widen and lengthen the church, didn't decide to replace some of the more unconventional grave stones, or add to graves without stones, a load of standardised, cheap simple stones, with quickly copied across inscriptions on them, and thats why there are quite a number with more than one name, but only one date.

maybe this is also the reason for the double sided stone, keep the cost down since the church might have been paying for this tidying of the graveyard and so the cheep replacements

Steven Dowd

[Kirsty]

Oooh, now that's an interesting theory I hadn't considered. Hmmm. Definitely worth thinking about and I can totally see how the double sided stone would fit into this. Also, the short, brief headstones mainly appear to have been worked by the same mason as they have quite a distinct feel to them. It's like recognising handwriting but stone carving instead...

Kirsty

[She]

Without going into too much detail- where did your parents live Kirsty?

Was it close to St Oswalds? It would have freaked me out finding headstones in my garden. I have enough funny stuff going on in my back garden without any headstones.

[She]

Just also to add that this "breadths" and double sided head stone thing isn't unique to Winwick. If you google it you will find several other discussions on the same subject, so whatever the reason it must have been common to other church yards.

I asked the same question here in Oct 2005 - http://www.mortfamily.net/forum/index.p ... sg15#msg15

[neileen]

we recently moved to winwick, and in november i fitted a woodburner, and in the chimney breast was a piece of a gravestone with the date 1860 on it, and this is in a property built in 1964

[She]

Ohhhhh ....Glad I live in Lowton then!

In our neck of the woods, I think we just burned people and left them under rocks at Lady Hill.

[Kirsty]

...where did your parents live Kirsty? Was it close to St. Oswalds? It would have freaked me out finding headstones in my garden. I have enough funny stuff going on in my back garden without any headstones.

Hi Sheila,

It's headstones from Emmanuel Church in Wargrave in my parents back garden. My mum & dad still live in the same house which is under five minutes walk from the church. Who ever moved the stones from the church (presumably the people my parents bought the house off) must have had some back-breaking work getting them stones from A to B. Several, several trips in a wheelbarrow I reckon. There are such a lot of stones (enough to build several walls) and in mostly large, heavy pieces.

As a teenager I used to love the look on my friends faces when I told them they were sat on a wall made of gravestones . It's never bothered me. I think I was so young when we discovered the stones I just took it for granted .

Neileen, How big was the piece of stone you found? It's completely fascinating. I wonder if the stone has been there since the construction of the house? If so, this could help us date when some stones were being lifted from St. Oswald's. Hmmm, interesting.

TTFN, Kirsty

[bob]

Ohhhhh ....Glad I live in Lowton then!

In our neck of the woods, I think we just burned people and left them under rocks at Lady Hill.

hehehe, cheers for that she, i needed a good laugh!

[neileen]

in old money it was 26ins x 7ins

[revjune]

Hi everyone ............ this is my first posting!
I am the new Rector of St Oswald's Winwick and in my experience 2 breadths means 2 breaths.
A long time ago if a baby was born without breathing they were not allowed to be buried in consecrated ground; the headstone is evidence that the child breathed - 2 breaths or 3 or 9 etc., and therefore can be buried in the church yard.
Hope this helps
June

[Steven]

Hello Rev June

Welcome and thanks, I have wondered what that meant, and haven't seen it explained anywhere, so simple really..

I have sent you an email about a matter concerning Winwick, which you might be able to help me with

Regards

Steven Dowd

[She]

Hi RevJune and welcome.

We all totally love your church and there are some amazing historical items in there we (I)...would love to photograph. The stained glass windows for one. Would you mind us (Steven) doing a walk about and having a photo session sometime? It is an amazing place of such high historic importance and should be captured for future generations.

Re the 2 breaths....it is an interesting thought but I have yet to be convinced it means....a person breathed. Some people buried are quite old. It is a curious statement to engrave on a grave at a time when the engraving probably cost a lot of money per word. Odd!