Looking for family history - Naylor & Rhodes

[gazzer]

Hi, I am looking for any information about a George Naylor & his wife Harriet Naylor nee (Rhodes) married 1847. George Naylor was a foreman smith and had 7 children, his father was called John Naylor a blacksmith. I have been trying to find information about George's mother, father and sibling's but am at a deadend. Can anyone help?

Thanks Gazzer

[Steven]

Hello Gazza

there are quite a number of Burials listed at St Peters for your Naylor surname, and only two young children listed for the Rhodes surname, but at least it might show that the Rhodes family are from the area.

Naylor

http://www.newton-le-willows.com/burials/index.php?FormName=Search&FormAction=search&s_name=Naylor

Rhodes

http://www.newton-le-willows.com/burials/index.php?FormName=Search&FormAction=search&s_name=Rhodes


Steven Dowd

[gazzer]

Thank's Steven

Can you tell me where the records for Newton are kept so i can search in more detail. According to the 1881 census George & Harriet Naylor lived in i think it's wargrove st or wargove the writing's not to clear.

Thank's again Gazzer

[Steven]

Hi

The records that I posted the above link to are not available unless you visit the lancs record office, but they show no extra detail, the above linked pages have a page image available, and you will see it really doesn't give any extra info on the full pafe

I think your Naylor's might have lived in the area called Wargrave, or Wargrave Road

This makes sense as its the area of Newton right next to the Vulcan Foundry site, and you say they were blacksmiths, so its a pretty safe guess that they most likely worked at the Vulcan Foundry.

There are quite a number of Naylor's living in Burtonwood, and a few of these at this same period are also blacksmiths, so I wonder if these might also be relatives.

These are the Baptisms listed at St Michaels in Burtonwood

http://dowd.info/Bwood_Baptisms.php?s_birthdate=naylor&Formgendata_burtonwood_baptisms_Page=2#gendata_burtonwood_baptisms

Steven Dowd

[Kirsty]

...I have been trying to find information about George's mother, father and sibling's but am at a dead end. Can anyone help?

Hi,

It looks like George's parents, John and Ann Naylor, had Haydock, Burtonwood and Newton-le-Willows connections. I say George's paents were John and Ann but it would be more accurate to say that George's father was John and John's wife was Ann (I don't know if Ann was also George's mother, John may have been married more than once).

Here is George, living in Haydock, with what is probably (but not definately) his parents and siblings;
1841
Source Citation: Class HO107; Piece 524; Folio: 5; Page: 2.
?????? Lane, Haydock, Lancashire
John Naylor - 55 - Blacksmith
Ann Naylor - 35
James Naylor - 20
George Naylor - 15
Bettey Naylor - 15
Ann Naylor - 10
John Naylor - 5
William Naylor - 2

Here is George's father, John, on the 1851 census;
1851
Source Citation: Class HO107; Piece 2202; Folio 6; Page 4.
Haydock, Lancashire
John Naylor – 68 (c. 1783) – Newton – Blacksmith
Ann Naylor – 48 (c. 1803) – Burtonwood – School Teacher
Ann Naylor – 23 (c. 1828) – Haydock
John Naylor – 17 (c. 1834) – Haydock – Smith
William Naylor – 12 (c. 1839) – Haydock – Scholar

I’ve checked for George’s baptism in Newton, St. Peter, Burtonwood, St. Michael and Ashton, St. Thomas with no joy. It’s possible John travelled more in the direction of St. Helens for the baptism of some of his children. However, I did come across the following baptisms which I thought you’d like to take a look at. Perhaps some of the following children were siblings of George (the baptism of William looks very promising);

St. Thomas, Ashton-in-Makerfield
B. 24/09/1829
Bapt. 03/10/1829
Ellen 3rd child and 3rd daughter of John and Ann Naylor of Haydock, blacksmith

B. 21/01/1833
Bapt. 03/03/1833
John 4th child and 1st son of John and Anne Naylor of Haydock, blacksmith

B. 24/03/1834
Bapt. 11/05/1834
John 5th child and 2nd son of John and Anne Naylor of Haydock, blacksmith

B. 22/02/1839
Bapt. 31/03/1839
William 7th child and 4th son of John and Anne Naylor of Haydock Smithy in Haydock, blacksmith

Well I hope the above helps a little.

Best Wishes, Kirsty

[gazzer]

Thank's Kirsty
It look's like it is George Naylor's Father. George was Married on the 8-7-1847 at St Thomas Ashton in Makerfield and he was living in Hayock. One of the witness's is James Naylor who could be his brother i have just looked on the 1841 census and it say's West Derby Could that be where George was born. I don't know that area so i don't know how far Haydock is from West Derby or if it is in West Derby .I come from Gorton in manchester and have never been round that area in the 1891 census it say' George &Harriet Naylor own the Swan Inn Swan rd and a farm in Newton le Willows.

Thank's again Gazzer

[Kirsty]

Hi Gazzer,

This might sound a little confusing but where you saw West Derby on the 1841 census it wasn't actually referring to the town of West Derby but to the "hundred" of West Derby. Both Haydock and Newton-le-Willows (among a great number of other towns including, Warrington, Wigan, Winwick, Prescot, Leigh and so on...) were within what was known as the "West Derby Hundred". The West Derby Hundred is an ancient division within the county of Lancashire. If I understand it correctly, the purpose of a "hundred" was to divide the large county of Lancashire into smaller administrative divisions. Just as a point of interest, I think your part of Lancashire would have fallen into the Hundred of Salford.

So, to cut a long answer short... No, George was not bon in West Derby. Going off what is recorded on the census he was born in Haydock. At the time of George's birth there was no church in Haydock itself and families had to travel to nearby parishes for baptisms, marriages and burials (that's why George was married in Ashton and not his home town. Haydock and Ashton closely boarder each other). Haydock families often travelled to nearby Ashton-in-Makerfield but they also used, St. Peter in Newton-le-Willows, St. Oswald in Winwick and the great number of churches and chapels in St. Helens. As George hasn't turned up in St. Peter, Newton or St. Thomas, Ashton it's probably worth pursuing the St. Helens route.

I'll have another dig around my records here to see if I can turn anything else up of interest.

Bye for now, Kirsty

[Podstar66]

Hi, Gazzer, Kirsty.

The 1841 census address looks like 'Colpit Lane' maybe this could be a 'Coal Pit Lane' ?

Also, coincidently, another user on here recently, LadyForshaw, posted about their links to The Swan Inn, and now in your post there are links to The Swan too.
And whilst viewing the 1841 census to have a stab at the address, I find next door to the John Naylor and family that Kirsty found, is a Forshaw family, with an Appleton child amongst them, which is also another link to Lady Forshaw and The Swan Inn, as she has a James Appleton as being in charge 1841-51.


Kirsty, I notice that you have Naylor(Golborne), Forshaw(Haydock) and Baines(Haydock) in your research names. On the 1841 census piece you posted, there are all of those surnames listed next door to each other. Maybe your names are connected to the ones Gazzer and LadyForshaw are asking for help with ?

It's a small world

Pod

[Kirsty]

Hi,

I think I've got a little more here. It looks like George died in 1896. Registration below;

Death - April/May/June Quarter 1896
NAYLOR, George - Age: 76 - Warrington - 8c 109

Harriet, George's widow, appears living on the 1901 census with her married daughter, Harriet Spurr. It's kind of funny that I should find this Spurr connection as Harriet's husband, Samuel Spurr, is actually in my own family tree. Samuel Spurr lived in Newton with his mother and step-father. Samuel's step-father, William Harrison (1831 - 1898) is how I fit in here (I'm a Harrison descendant). But anyway, I digress...

Samuel Spurr is recorded on the 1901 census as being a "Licensed Victualler" (in lay-mans terms, a pub land-lord). I only mention this as I wondered if there was a link with the Swan.

I thought the following death registration could be Harriet;

Death - October/November/December Quarter 1907
Naylor, Harriet - Age: 81 - Warrington - 8c 111

I’ll sign off for now.

TTFN, Kirsty

P.S. Pod, good catch with the connection with the Forshaw and Appletons and I think you're spot on with the 1841 street name too. Adios, K

[Podstar66]

On the 1851 census for John Naylor, the address is given as what looks like, 'Plain Tree'.
Now on the 1893 map there is a Plane Tree Farm at the top of Vista Road/Penny Lane. This may be the same place.
Which again, coincidentially, is the area that LadyForshaw is looking with her 'Hall Meadow' as this is at the top of Vista Road too.

Pod

[Kirsty]

Hi Gazzer, Pod and all,

I think you're really onto something Pod. These don't seem like just common coincidences to me - Good work .

I thought it would be interesting to know who the landlord of the Swan Inn/Hotel was in 1911 so I took a peek at the census (see below);

1911 Census
Swan Hotel, Swan Road, Newton-le-Willows
Head - John Naylor - 50 - Married - Licensed Victualler - Wargrave, Earlestown
Wife - Emily Naylor - 38 - Married 15 years (3 children born, all still alive) - Sutton Oak, St. Helens
Daughter - Lilian Irene Naylor - 14 - Swan Hotel, Earlestown
Son - Vivian John Rupert Naylor - 12 - Swan Hotel, Earlestown
Son - Montague Cecil Eugene Naylor - 9 - Swan Hotel, Earlestown

Servant - Agnes Duffy - 20 - Barmaid - Burtonwood
Servant - Annie Duffy - 18 - Barmaid - Burtonwood
Servant - Mary Zelanka - 17 - Barmaid - Liverpool
Servant - Annie Zelanka - 15 - Barmaid - Liverpool

John and Emily Naylor gave their children some impressive names. Also, it's worth noting that all three children were born at The Swan, so it appears that John Naylor had been landlord for at least 14 years.

I’ve got a reproduction of a 1910 OS map covering part of Earlestown. On the back of the map is a directory and a John Naylor is recorded as living at the Swan Hotel, Swan Road.

That’s all from me for now.

TTFN, Kirsty

[gazzer]

Thank's Kirsty and Pod

It look's like I have started something as you may have guessed I have only just started doing my family tree. I have been working off B-M-D certificates that my father gave me just before he died last December age 86. I was interested when you mentioned the name Appleton because my Grandfather was called - Frederick Appleton Naylor born 1884. His father was William Naylor, the eldest son of George & Harriet Naylor. I know nothing about the rest of George's children other than Harriet marrying Samuel Spurr and Betsy Naylor was born in Leed's. It seems that George Naylor, who was a blacksmith, followed the work in the railway industry from Newton to Holbeck, Leeds then back to Newton. My father, grandfather & Great Grandfather all worked making railway engines. Both William and his wife, Birtha Isabel Naylor are buried in Gorton Cemetery, Manchester.

Thanks again, Gazzer

[Podstar66]

Hi Gazzer
I have spent some time looking at the Haydock Tithe map, and the details.
There are quite a few Naylors listed as occupiers.
James, George, Thomas, John, Ann, Betty, and Mary.
So your Naylors were living around Haydock at the time of the tithe in 1839.
I even located a a house and blacksmiths shop for a John Naylor. The blacksmiths shop was at the top of Vista Road, in Church Lane, approximately where the bus stop is (the one for St Helens that has the open space behind it)
Also a Betty Naylor is listed as the occupier of the tithes surrounding the farm near where Haydock Hall was, but not the occupier of the lands that Haydock Hall stood in, the 'Hall Meadow' as mentioned in another posting.
See the 'Newton Racecourse from the Air' post. There is a map section that shows the 'Hall Meadow' area. And on the same section of map, at the side of the writing that says Rams Head Inn, between the words 'head' and 'well', you will see a building, this I believe is the blacksmiths.

Pod

[gazzer]

Thank's again Pod
You have been very helpfull I will look at the Tithe map .
Thank's Gazzer

[PeteR]

Hi Gazzer

I can give you a lot of info about Harriet Rhodes. She was baptised in Chesterfield on 4 June 1826 and was the daughter of William Rhodes and Elizabeth Rhodes (nee Mason). William and Elizabeth moved from Derbyshire to Newton in the mid-1830's where he found work as a grinder at the Vulcan Foundry. Descendants of his worked there right up to about 1970. If you email me at pete.rhodes(at)ntlworld.com I'll forward you some Word documents with loads of info. I have traced their ancestors back to about 1650.

Peter Rhodes